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Housebreaking.. arrggghh!! Empty Housebreaking.. arrggghh!!

Post by claire on Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:35 pm

Hi all,

So Boo will be 11 weeks tomorrow and we have had her for 3 weeks now, but are no further along with the housebreaking.

We take her out and say wee wees and have puppy pads in the house (just in the hope that they may catch some of the accidents) but she doesnt like going outside and inside she'll just go anywhere and everywhere (so rarely on the pads!).

Doing all the usual things, saying NO if she goes inside and taking her out, taking her out every half hour or so, lots of praise and reward when she does well etc etc...

I am losing my mind as there is NO sign of progress - I know she is only a baby and at 11 weeks old I am sure I couldnt control my movements, so I am wondering, as a bit of extra encouragement - do you think clicker training would help the housebreaking progress?
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Post by adele on Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:43 pm

i am really unsure what to sugest with this problem, as molly was really quick to house train lucy on the other hand has been a nightmear and is also driving us mad groan she is 5 months old now and stil peeing anywhere, we too have pads down and i don`t think she has ever used them, my 12 week old chihuahua uses the pads and she is doing better than lucy.
so i don`t know what the anwser is but i`ll be watching this post to see what the others say on this subject.
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Post by Lynne & Gus on Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:48 pm

Well heres what we did with Gus:

When he was a baby he had his crate with a built on pen. His crate was his bed area, and the pen was the play/toilet area. This worked fine,when he was in the pen. The house - that was a different matter altogether! Like you say, he would go anywhere and everywhere. So we ended up with pads/newspaper in an area of every room!!! Rolling Eyes And eventually, he got used to going on them (the paper, not so much the pads). As he got older, I started to predict when he would need to go, and tried as much as poss to take him out at these times. Obviously there was still the odd accident but the more he peed outside, the more he wanted to do it out there. Gradually, the pads/paper were taken out of each room and his pen...and EVENTUALLY...he got there!!! cheers But I would say he was about 7months when he cracked it!! When you see her about to pee, try lifting her on to the pad...not pretty (!) but then her scent will be on it, and she may well know to go there the next time.

It did take a while, and I am sure I heard somewhere that shih tzu's can be notoriously slow when it comes to toilet training. I am not sure about the clicker, and hate to say it, but I think it's more about persevering!! But she WILL get it - it will just click I am sure. Keep at it, and keep us posted! thumbs up
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Post by claire on Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:52 pm

OK i will try more pads and newspaper down everywhere then. at least that will save the cream carpet a bit as she has the squits atm! thanks!
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Post by claire on Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:53 pm

oh forgot to say, she wont go on a pad if its already got a drop of wee on it?!
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Post by Lynne & Gus on Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:59 pm

Well...we didn't have them EVERYWHERE!! Just in a corner of most rooms 'til he could hold it a bit more.

I thought if the pad had already been peed on then she would know to go there?? Hmm..maybe thats more of a male thing??? Well, as I say, it can get disheartening..but eventually she will get there! Easy to say just now I know...but she will!!! yes yes
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Post by adele on Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:14 pm

yes lynn i recall reading somewhere that shih tzu were one of the worst dogs for house training and at the time of reading it i thought "rubbish" as molly was really quick, but now with lucy i beleive it to be true, evening time is worse with lucy i`m sure she saves up all her pee through the day just to p**s us off when we sat down relaxing on a night, oh well we`ll get there one day Rolling Eyes
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Post by simbalove on Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:50 pm

I wouldn't say they are the worse dogs for toilet training but they don't like the feeling of wee on their little bodies and they are not the best for going out in bad weather lol (let's face it would you like to squat and wee in our climate?? Very Happy )

Any way there has been good advice here but I will add a bit more if thats ok with you?

Puppies like to return to a spot so a suggestion is to put paper/pads anywhere she has already had an accident.

At 11 weeks old (and even 11 months) a puppy is still a baby - so always remember that - noone goes spare because a baby isn't toilet-trained do they?? So even if they get the point (and one day the penny does actually drop - pardon the pun) they still may have accidents.

Adele - it is often difficult to train a second puppy when you have one in the house already.... I found it with my second - maybe it was because I wasn't as efficient training with the older dog there... I don't know.

Here is the grand plan for training a puppy....

You need to watch them like a hawk as you will learn to recognise the signs of forthcoming weewee!! (Most of the timeanyway). Take the puppy outside (or onto the pad/paper) EVERY time he/she wakes up, EVERY time they have had a drink or something to eat, EVERY time they have a little play or when they get excited (visitors etc) and then lots of times in between. If you take the pup out first thing in the morning, stay with them and do not come back in until he/she has done the SECOND wee because all shih tzu pups spend two pennies in the morning!!!! Many is the time I have come back in praising like mad only to have an accident on the carpet inside lol!

Shih Tzu respond well to clicker training so if you want to go down that route then yes go for it. (If you would like me to give you some training tips I will write a section in the reference section as I had Josh doing all manner of tricks at 9 weeks of age using a clicker). When the pup performs a toilet click immediately the treat comes just after (so the pup connects the click with the action). Do this for a while... you have to be quick with the click. Then use the prompt as you click (I usually say "Be clean" or "Have a wee") It doesn't matter what you say as long as you say the same thing every time. Eventually they will connect the words with the action (whichever method you use you need to use the prompt words as that is how they learn what you want... remember that the only law a puppy is born with is that you do NOT soil where you sleep... they do NOT know human rules and have to learn them!!)

If you are clicker training you need to train the pup to accept and understand the clicker first and if you are not sure how to do that let me know and I will write it up!! Very Happy

So to recap:-
  1. you need loads of patience as it doesn't happen overnight (it also depends on what was done before you had the puppy btw - my puppies were in the toilet-training mode before they left me but some pups are just left to their own devices - and then they get blamed for being stubborn or difficult to train!!)
  2. you need t be consistent and keep on top of the training until the penny drops!
  3. you need to stay calm when accidents happen and it is better to remove the puppy frm the scene before you clean it up as if they think you are unhappy about doing it on your floor they may well try to hide it and go on your sofa or somewhere else!!


Hope that helps!! Very Happy

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Post by claire on Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:09 am

Thanks for all the advice. yes am definitely interested in clicker training as i think this would help with other behaviour so info on this i would love to read. patience is a vitue i guess!

btw.. put a couple more pads down last night so there are now 5 down throughout the house and last night and this morning, she found a pad and has managed to do number 1s and 2s on them all except 1 wee that slipped out earlier... promising! Very Happy
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Post by Lynne & Gus on Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:15 am

Thats great news! Things are looking up! Very Happy
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Post by daisydotes on Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:40 am

I think toilet training is the most frustrating thing you have to do with a new puppy.

I had pads in each room with Daisy and it was hit and miss sometimes she used them others she just went where she stood. Shocked

I suppose we had it sorted completely by the end of summer when she was about 7 to 8 months it did help being the summer cos I just left the patio doors open and she could go out when she wanted.

Hattie was brill and got the hang of it all very quickly I just assumed she watched Daisy and then copied what she did.

When I was picking Hattie up from the breeder I happened to say about how I was dreading Toilet training again and she was surprised at the time Daisy had taken to learn.

She asked me how I had gone about it with Daisy and I said well puppy pads everywhere and she said no no no no one as close to the door you want to use to let them in to the garden and none anywhere else,

Well I thought I would try this method and must say it did work with Hattie.

But maybe I was just lucky.
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Post by Lynne & Gus on Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:45 am

I wish we could have done that with Gus, but with our house, you come in the front door, then you are straight up 2 flights of stairs. We did however, gradually move his newspaper nearer and nearer to the top of the stairs!!! Our friend, who got a miniature shnauzer the same time as we got Gus, did exactly as you did Sandra (left their patio doors open) and he was trained by 4 months!
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Post by claire on Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:57 am

damn british weather ay?!
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Post by Nyssa on Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:05 pm

I had two mats with Peerie - one in the living room and one in the bedroom for night time and I was surprised how quickly she got it - although it did take her quite a while to register that it's her BACK legs that need to be on the mat, not just her front ones! Even now she sometimes forgets that (she gets a mat left down for when I'm at work). I remember her breeders being really surprised that at 6 months she was going on the mat/outside 99% of the time - apparently her mum was still having accidents inside at well over a year old!

About the two weewee thing - Peerie still has about 5 wees outside first thing in the morning! By the last one just before we go back inside I'm sure she must be wringing her kidneys out or something to squuze out those last few drops!
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Post by simbalove on Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:36 pm

claire wrote:Thanks for all the advice. yes am definitely interested in clicker training as i think this would help with other behaviour so info on this i would love to read. patience is a vitue i guess!

btw.. put a couple more pads down last night so there are now 5 down throughout the house and last night and this morning, she found a pad and has managed to do number 1s and 2s on them all except 1 wee that slipped out earlier... promising! Very Happy
I think both you and she are doing very well for such a baby! I will knock up some clicker training notes asap!!

Have to say that I have always found that so enearing and amusing when they stand so proudly on the mat and pee on the floor!! Very Happy

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Post by claire on Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:55 pm

lol i know! bless them! they really think that theyve done so well and all the wee is on the carpet at the edge of the mat.

boo's new trick is standing on the patio with her 2 front paws on the cill and weeing standing upright! Rolling Eyes
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Post by Ioxia, Coco & Saska on Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:14 pm

Well the day Saska finally clicks will be the day you will all here me yell whilst praising her.

She is just slightly over 9 mths and she uses the paper, I find it doesn't smell as bad as the pee pads. But Saska will pee on the carpet where the paper usually is if I was putting old paper in the bin, she'd just go squat on the carpet. As for learning from her mother, ha ha ha ha.....

Coco was notoriously slow with toilet training as well.

And as for washing it with washing liquid/powder (non bio is it?) to prevent them going in the same place, I have tried that and does it deter her, - NO!
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Post by adele on Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:27 pm

i`m just glad to here that i`m not the only one with the housebreaking problems lol!
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Post by Betty Boo on Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:34 pm

stanim1 Well I have one out of 3 shiddies house trained!!!! My Bouffy is great, when I got her at 6months old she wasent trained at all, but she learned pretty quick just the odd accident. But as for my now 3years old Bella, well I dont think we will ever get there OMG If no wee wee pad is down, then she does it all over the floor.....I wonder if it runs in the family, because when I went to see her as a pup, her mum was and still does use pads. As for Betty well she is still a baby, but shes getting there slowly.
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Post by claire on Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:11 am

morning all... ok so a quick update for you and its good news! Very Happy
boo has been going for wees and poos on her pads for the past day and a half and only 1 little wee wee accident! she woke me up at 4am this morning, ran to her pad, did a wee and ran back to her crate and went back to sleep before i could even say weewees! then she woke me up at 7am and did the same again and did a poo as well! sooooo pleased!!!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Post by Nyssa on Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:47 am

Yay! Clever Boo!!! What a proud mama you must be.
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Post by Guest on Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:10 am

Im really pleased for you, what a clever little girl she is thumbs up 10 out of 10 thumbs up

This is for you Boo stroke stroke stroke

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Post by Lynne & Gus on Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:43 am

Awww that is great news! 10 out of 10
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Post by LoopyLu on Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:18 am

Well done boo!! cheers thumbs up 10 out of 10

There's hope for Willow yet!! lol!

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Post by simbalove on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:19 pm

Wel Done Boo!! You are well on the way now Very Happy (she has worked out what her mummy wants her to do methinks!!) thumbs up 2

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