Daisy has the mucous stools yet again

We are only on day 2 of Daisy having a tiny amount of her Nature Diet mixed in with the Purina EN and we got back from shopping this morning and she'd had a really awful poo inside her crate on her bed. It was really gross, a very big poo covered with mucous

I'm at my wits end as I just can't understand what is going on. She was fine when we first got her and now it seems nothing we give her, apart from the Purina EN, seems to keep her poos normal. We have racked about £200 in vet's bills and I guess we are going to have to go back again. Not only am I not happy with her staying on the Purina EN but at nearly £2 a day it's going to work out too expensive as our labrador is on the Hill's Science food and that is already expensive and we really hadn't anticipated having a second dog with health problems so early on.

I have spoken with the breeder but she didn't seem to be able to offer any advice other than to keep feeding her the Purina EN and maybe take a poo sample to the vet.

Anyone have any ideas as to what I can do

Lyn

So sorry Daisy is having problems again. You say she did a massive poo in her crate while you were out, is it possible that she was scared or suffered from separation anxiety for some reason rather than having an upset tummy? I know it is expensive to buy the Purina, but if that is the food that suits Daisy at the minute you may have to stick to it, until you can do plenty of research into other foods and ideas.

I would definitely look into giving her raw chicken wings as Lesley did with Josh, because then you know she will be having something that shouldn't upset her. Also have you tried using a pro-biotic to balance the bacteria in Daisy's gut? That may help as well.

She definitely doesn't have separation anxiety as we always put her in her crate when we go out as she is always much happier in there then in her pen or the kitchen. I really do think it's food related or that she has something else wrong with her.

I don't mind giving her the Purina EN short term but it's expensive for what is basically a crap quality food. I just want her to be healthy and feel like I'm a failure because I can't seem to get it right

Lyn

I have been looking on the internet to back up what my vet said. Sometimes mine have mucus and i relate it to when i give them wet food. My vet advised for me that is was the colon being overloaded and mucus being produced. As long as there wasn't blood in the toilet which is not the case for me. This is called colitis, like constipation.

I have read that the colon could be inflamed producing more mucus than normal. There are a few causes for this including parasites infestation, stress and dietary. Have you looked at the internet?

My vet always gives me a lesson in some related health issue and i read up about it on the internet.

My three toilets have been the best ever since they have been on trophy pet food - dry food. they have nutrionists you can speak to. I am a constant toilet monitor.

Rooney, Roxy&Pip wrote:I have been looking on the internet to back up what my vet said. Sometimes mine have mucus and i relate it to when i give them wet food. My vet advised for me that is was the colon being overloaded and mucus being produced. As long as there wasn't blood in the toilet which is not the case for me. This is called colitis, like constipation.

I have read that the colon could be inflamed producing more mucus than normal. There are a few causes for this including parasites infestation, stress and dietary. Have you looked at the internet?

My vet always gives me a lesson in some related health issue and i read up about it on the internet.

My three toilets have been the best ever since they have been on trophy pet food - dry food. they have nutrionists you can speak to. I am a constant toilet monitor.

Well I can definately say mine have been much better since being on Trophy, no runny poos in either of them or mucus in the case of Mali.

I think I'll get a sample of her poo and ask the vet to get it tested to rule out any other problems. Just been down to Pets@Home to have a look at the Prize Choice raw food but got a bit confused as it was labelled on the freezer as being "complimentary" which we took to mean that it was to be added to other foods. We did buy some of the Salmon Nature Diet Sensitive but we won't try that on her until her poos are normal. If she was okay with that I guess it would rule out her being sensitive to rice.

Lyn

So did the Natures Menu banquet nuggets have that written on them but they were a complete diet. they have to put that on by law I think because it is not a mixed formulated diet - just 100% chicken.

If it worries you why don't you feed her the Narues Menu Banquet nuggets? I know they have rice in but so did the Forthglade food she was brought up on and the Banquet Nuggets are very similar in constitution just raw not cooked!

If you give her a raw chicken wing it will help with the tummy problems.

Lesley I think it was just the plain chicken packs that had that written on them. We had thought maybe if we just gave her one food on it's own then we would be able to work out what agrees with her and what doesn't. Our vet said sometimes they can be fine on a food and one day just become intolerant to it, have no idea if that is true or not. I've just given her a very small amount of the Purina EN, despite my instincts telling me not to, so will see what the vet has to say tomorrow.

OH just says we have enough on our plates with our labrador having bowel issues all the time and he's not happy having 2 dogs with problems which I understand as it's hard dealing with just one unwell dog, never mind two of them.

Lyn

Its frustrating. I have tried to get mine on the right food for 4 years. I have had a battle with roxy as when she has bad toilets it was a cycle of her having diarrhoea, eating it, being sick and either end was looking the same. Sorry for the mental picture but she was in a bad state for a while. Now i am on better food, and regular toilets i can always be with her when she is toileting.

Simba went through all sorts of terrible tummies when he was a pup Lyn, but as he has got older he has improved quite a lot. He still gets days when he has problems, but on the whole he is much better. It got to the stage where the vet was considering sending him to a specialist for all sorts of tests, and investigations, but we held off as he was getting better as he grew. He had barium tests with the vet and all sorts of other things, but not one result showed up any problem at all. The vet wanted to try special diets from him, but Simba wouldn't touch it (and looking at I don't blame him, it looked horrible). My Mum has a series of medical problems and when she is bad Simba picks up on the stress in the house, which can make things worse and is why I asked yesterday about Daisy being stressed.

sujay wrote:Simba went through all sorts of terrible tummies when he was a pup Lyn, but as he has got older he has improved quite a lot. He still gets days when he has problems, but on the whole he is much better. It got to the stage where the vet was considering sending him to a specialist for all sorts of tests, and investigations, but we held off as he was getting better as he grew. He had barium tests with the vet and all sorts of other things, but not one result showed up any problem at all. The vet wanted to try special diets from him, but Simba wouldn't touch it (and looking at I don't blame him, it looked horrible). My Mum has a series of medical problems and when she is bad Simba picks up on the stress in the house, which can make things worse and is why I asked yesterday about Daisy being stressed.

I also wonder if that could be what is causing all this. I totally agree they pick up on all of these things. I remember when my Mum was very ill and coming to the end of life, I was terribly upset and went into the bedroom crying,the girls used to come in and look at me to say ''it's ok Mum we are here for you'. I have looked at all sorts of forums for Lyn to see if there were any clues, all seem to say it isn't anything serious. I know Mali had the same problem while she was on Burns and since changing to Trophy we have not had a problem, that doesn't mean to say she wouldn't have grown out of it either. Becasue not every food suits all dogs, if they did they could make one product 'fits all' and wouldn't that be brilliant,now there's athought?

If they made a one food suits all Carol, they would make an absolute fortune! It takes a while to find the right food, but once you do they usually change something in the formulation to upset the balance again!

I just phoned Nature Diet to ask if they might have changed any of the ingredients in the Nature Diet food but they said they haven't. They said it is possible she's just developed an intolerance or allergy to one of the ingredients and suggested some blood tests to see if that is the case.

Last night and this morning I just gave Daisy the Purina EN and today she did a poo and it was normal. Now I know one normal poo is not enough to say it is the Nature Diet that is upsetting her, so I have ordered a bag of Purina EN in the dried kibble as I find the tinned stuff is so mushy I don't think it can be very good for her teeth.

As for stress, well for sure our house is sometimes stressful as I suffer with anxiety and depression and get days when I feel very fed up and down with everything. When I have 2 dogs with health problems it certainly doesn't help either and it's been a pretty tense couple of weeks in our house since Daisy hasn't been well.

Generally though I wouldn't say Daisy is stressed about anything. I am home pretty much all day with her and she has lots of toys and walks and always seems to be a happy little thing.

Lyn

I think that you might have to bite the bullet and give Daisy the Purina for a bit while she settles her tummy and you can investigate all the other foods available. I know it is a nightmare trying to find something they will eat and suits them.

The stress thing is a viscous circle. Shih tzu are very sensitive and loving little dogs, and can pick up on the slightest change or bit of tension, so if you are a bit uptight Daisy will feel it which could have a knock on effect on her. Saying that, they are also the best little friends to comfort you when you need it and are always there for you. They show real unconditional love to their owners. I know it is hard for you having two dogs with problems, but try and stay as calm as possible and I am sure she will come through this and you will say to yourself, why were we worried?

How is Daisy now has she improved. I did say I would mention iit to my Vet when I took Tasha for her booster. She went yesterday so asked karen the Vet did she know what might be the cause of mucus around her stools and whithout hesitation she said Colitis. And told me there is medication for it but unfortunately it causes 'Dry Eye' which in turn can easily get an eye ulcer. I was so glad I keep my girls up o date with their jabs as aparantly Parvo Virus is quite rife in our area. I showed her the Alert System which is in place now so she was going to look into that.

At the moment Daisy seems okay, touch wood.

She is still on the Purina EN but I've just bought a bag of the dried kibble version of it as I find the tinned stuff is very mushy compared to the Nature Diet and I worry how it might affect her teeth. I did ask the receptionist at the vets to let the vet know that we hadn't been successful trying to get Daisy back onto the Nature Diet and she said he would most likely get back to me about it. Couldn't see the point of making yet another appointment as right now I don't think there is anything the vet can actually do.

It's funny as our vet said only the bloody stools were a sign of colitis and that the mucous just meant something was irritating her bowel which he thought was something in her food. Glad you mentioned the dry eye Carol as I should have twigged on that one. Our daughter in law suffers with ulcerative colitis and has an ulcer on one of her eyes right now which is linked to her bowel disorder and she takes anti inflammatories for it. When our labrador gets a bout of colitis she is given human meds, which are anti inflammatories, as apparently there are no specific meds for animals for this. So I guess either the colitis itself or the meds given to treat it cause the dry eye.

I don't think there have been any cases of Parvo here but I will check that out too. Daisy is up to date with her immunisations as she'd had all her jabs when we got her

Lyn

Yes I think you are right on the Colitis and Dry Eye, which is why my vet said she wouldn't recommend the med for Colitis. Problem where we live is there are a lot of dog breeders who probably never vaccinate their dogs . which is why they become ill. Allit cost me for Tasha was £21 30+ vat I think that is excellent for peace of mind. I also got some Milbemax wormer which was another £5 = Vat all in all our vet is very good with their costs I never hesitate to go their if there is a problem. It is also a very very happy place always have a laugh when we go in there they said to me it is a very happy place here to work in.

That's not good to sell puppies without any vaccinations, not unless you tell the person buying the puppy that they aren't vaccinated. As we got Daisy as a "run on" puppy she was that much older. I was looking on the Shih Tzu Club site earlier and noticed that her sister has been doing well in competitions already

Lyn

Lyn, there are a lot of puppy farms in this area, and unless you are very careful you can easily end up buying one of these dogs. They are not true breeders, but just in it to use as many dogs as possible as money making machines, keeping them in disgusting conditions. Often the unsuspecting public get caught out and end up with a very poorly pup, who has a multitude of health and behaviour problems if they manage to survive past the puppy stage.

my ruby suffers with colotis,we have had the bloody loose stools and the mucus sometimes it looked like a jelly slug,when she has a flare up,which touch wood she hasnt for at least 8 months now,but when she did we give her a probotic paste and this seems to help.we have managed rubys colotis with food,we had all the blood tests to see if she was allerigic to anything,and it came back that she is allergic to lamb,beef,chicken,pork and turkey,she has been on a dry fish dog food and she has been brillant on it,we had all the vet food but it caused bad staining on her face and feet,we no if she picks up anything that she shouldnt have to eat and within 24 hours she will be bad.

sujay wrote:Lyn, there are a lot of puppy farms in this area, and unless you are very careful you can easily end up buying one of these dogs. They are not true breeders, but just in it to use as many dogs as possible as money making machines, keeping them in disgusting conditions. Often the unsuspecting public get caught out and end up with a very poorly pup, who has a multitude of health and behaviour problems if they manage to survive past the puppy stage.

I had no idea about all those puppy farms, I'm just glad we got Daisy from a reputable breeder.

jay16570 wrote:my ruby suffers with colotis,we have had the bloody loose stools and the mucus sometimes it looked like a jelly slug,when she has a flare up,which touch wood she hasnt for at least 8 months now,but when she did we give her a probotic paste and this seems to help.we have managed rubys colotis with food,we had all the blood tests to see if she was allerigic to anything,and it came back that she is allergic to lamb,beef,chicken,pork and turkey,she has been on a dry fish dog food and she has been brillant on it,we had all the vet food but it caused bad staining on her face and feet,we no if she picks up anything that she shouldnt have to eat and within 24 hours she will be bad.

See I had never heard of the food staining their faces and feet so I will have to watch out for that. I do have some prebiotics for Daisy and I also bought some slippery elm powder but haven't given it to her yet. I am really unsure what to do next as I don't want Daisy staying on the Purina food as I just don't like those commercial foods. Sorry to hear that Ruby has so many foods she is intolerant too, but it's good that you found a food she can eat. I have so many bags of food here, none of which I dare try out right now but my utility cupboard is resembling a pet store now. I've got some Royal Canin, Hill's Science, Orijen, Purina and Nature Diet

Lyn

lyn i used to feed ruby orijen meat varity until we found out about her intolerances then we changed her to orijen 6 fish which she got on ok with,then we have changed her to canagan fish because its half the price of orijen and it is not imported its made here,thats why its cheaper than orijen,and shes doing brillant on it.

I think the Canagen is made near me, but they don't sell it locally, nor do they do trial packs. I may see if I can get a trial pack of the fish one to see if that suits Daisy as I know it's either chicken or rice that she is intolerant to.

Lyn

lyn, they dont do trial packs i phoned them when i wanted to try it,but when i phoned them i asked for a discount voucher so i could try the food and see how she was on it,they sent me a £5 off voucher and this meant i got a 2,1/2kg bag for £6. there is only a couple of places in leicester that sell it so i have to travel to natural world pet store,which is about 20 minutes away from me,on there web site there is a stockist page,you would think if its made near you that you would be able to buy it from them direct.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=canagan&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.canagan.co.uk%2F&ei=gn0GUb_hN-mg0QW_34CICw&usg=AFQjCNE1fjoBtrko7YeExzSFvyKUhhyzQw&bvm=bv.41524429,d.d2k

Lyn you really need to keep to the food Daisy is on at the moment to give the gut time to heal from the colitis. It isn't a good idea to go chopping and changing about... so what if they have a few stained whiskers?? It is more likley to be from the water anyway