A hi with some advice please! :)

I really think two shih tzu`s are better than one, when i only had Molly she suffered really bad with seperation anxioty (sp?) i`ve been really lucky that i am home all day everyday due to my illness.
But when ever i left Molly to go to the shops or anything, i could see when i got back she was in a terrible state, she would have droowled so much her face would be dripping wet with drool and i could hear her crying as i walked up to my house.
Then a year later when i got Molly`s half sister Lucy all this stopped, Lucy was a content little puppy and Molly became a better dog, i now have 3 shih tzu and a chihuaha, olus my old staffie.
From what i have experienced shih tzu`s need company and i belive 8-9 hours is far too long for any dog to be left.
I am just entering into breeding and have already made out puppy contracts and have already decided my babies will not be sold to full time workers.

JMO

Actually after careful consideration about this I will NOT sell my little treasures to full time people , after all they are babies . would you leave a human baby on its own , No not at all so whats the difference ,nothing As far as I am concerned they are human,

Hi Tesrayla

I agree with you as I dont let anyone of mine go to anyone that is working no matter how many hours they work, they are used to someone being with them all day. The same when I breed .

Having said that this is my opinion but I would agree that each person has to be judged on his or her own merits, not everyone who works would allow the dogs to be left for long hours all day.

But I wouldnt judge someone who works unfit to have a puppy or breed just because mine are never left. You could find a perfect home with someone who works that will give the dog all that it needs.

Unlike a human baby puppies mature quicker, for all they are our babies and we love them its down to personnel choice.

Maggie


I

They are your puppies and you are entitled to sell them to whomever you please, however I do think there is a case to be argued for the working person. I believe I provide Oscar with a loving, caring home. I ensure as far as I can that he doesn't spend all day alone (my parents live very close and he's normally been dog knapped by about 10 o'clock LOL). On the rare occasions that he is alone all day once we are home from work the evening is dedicated entirely to him.
Perhaps each potential home could be judged on their own merits rather than a blanket decision.
I don't mean to cause offense to anyone.

Hi Tracy

I wouldnt judge someone unfit because they work, as I have already stated alot of people who work can still give a dog all that it needs, to make the dogs life full and loved.

I can honestly see both sides of the discussion, a friend of ours works a few hours a day and he has a dog from mum, great home the dog is much loved and well cared for. He and his partner give the dog all that it needs and in return the dog loves both of them and must say it is a well adjusted and friendly dog, a real credit to both of them and to the work and love that they have put into the dog.


So I for one could never say I wouldnt do it, it would depend on the curcumstances of the prospective new owners .

Maggie

I think I posted the same time as your previous reply Maggie

I just think I'm just feeling a little defensive, I adore my little furry boy and we as a family have benefitted so much from Oscar being a part of our family and I like to think/believe he has a good loving home too!

Hi Tracy

There is no need to worry I am very sure that your family and you love and adore Oscar and he is in the right home. I dont think any of us doubt that for a moment.

There are a lot of breeders and pet owners who work and manage to have a dog that is well cared for and loved also well looked after and all the needs of the dog taken care of. I am also sure those that do work would never agree that a loving home cannot be found within a working home. Each home and prospective new parents of these puppies / dogs should be judged on merit, JMHO

If everyone who worked didnt have a dog or bred then I am sure there would be a lot of good loving homes where dogs can and do have a full life sadly not there.

Maggie

tesrayla wrote:Actually after careful consideration about this I will NOT sell my little treasures to full time people , after all they are babies . would you leave a human baby on its own , No not at all so whats the difference ,nothing As far as I am concerned they are human,

I did draw a similar comparison but a dog isn't a human and human babies are more dependant imo! I think that's quite an extreme way of looking at it though!

we maybe working full time but that doesnt mean we will love a puppy any less than someone that is there 24/7.

Just to give my persepective (sorry, not been online much this weekend!)...

I got Peerie two and half years ago when I was working full time, as I have every since. I was very lucky as I was working in a very small school and I was allowed to bring her in with me for the first two weeks so she wasn't left alone. I then had two weeks of the christmas hols, and then she came in for another week. By this point she was 15 weeks (ish) old. I then arranged for my neighbour to come in at lunch time to take her out and play with her, but after a couplf of weeks I stopped this, as my neighbour said that Peerie was more unsettled in the afternoon. She's still 'sneak' in to the front garden to have a spy, and Peerie was always fine. So from the age of about 17/18 weeks she got left for about 8 hours a day and never showed any signs of anxiety or boredom. She got left plenty of toys, dry food to graze on as she wished, the tv on for background noise, and had the run of the kitchen and living room.

When I came home, my time was hers as I was living in Shetland and tbh, there wasn't really much to tempt me out of an evening!

Becasue Peerie has always been used to it, I've never had any problems with her being left. She doesn't show signs of stress and apart from one table leg when she was teething, one (rather expensive) laptop cable, and a couple of loo rolls I foolishly left within reach (!) she's never been destructive.

This has basically continued as the pattern until recently when we (I now live in Edinburgh with my bf) got Bramble. My mum has been coming in every day so that she's only left for an hour or so, and we're in the process of lengthening that time so that in another three weeks or so they'll prob both get left all day.

As long as you make sure that your dogs are the focus when you get home and they have plenty of space and toys ot keep them entertained, I don't see any problem with them being left during the day. To be honest, when my bf or I have days off during the week, Peerie just looks cross that we've upset her routine and takes herself off to sleep most of the day!

JMHO.

Thanks Maggie I am going to get back into my box now, I don't normally get involved in these controvertial threads. LOL!

Besides if I don't do some work soon my boss will ensure I'm not a working owner anyway.

Hi Tracy

Its nice to get out of your box for awhile, we all have our own opinions thats what make us all different.

I am sure your boss is the understanding type, LOL

Maggie

tracynoe wrote:I think I posted the same time as your previous reply Maggie

I just think I'm just feeling a little defensive, I adore my little furry boy and we as a family have benefitted so much from Oscar being a part of our family and I like to think/believe he has a good loving home too!

I totally agree with you Tracy and please don't apologise for being defensive as I am feeling that way too. What is more I am feeling a little annoyed at the reactions of some of our members who are maybe being a tad hypocritical too and maybe should think about their own actions first before condemning others!

Nothing is ever black and white and it is lovely that someone like Maggie has the good fortune to be able to stay at home with her dogs but for many of us that is not economically possible and to imply then that we provide our pets with an inferior type of home/environment I find quite offensive. Maybe noone meant that but I think if you read back through the posts and read it from a fully employed person's perspective you might see what I mean.

I just want to stress here that I am not getting at you Maggie - from what i have read you have put forward your opinion but have also looked at it from the other side. I really don't want you to be upset thinking I am having a go at you in anyway when I am not

Hi Lesley

I dont think you are having ago at me, but can see how you would be mad at some of the posts. There are reasons on both sides of the debate, and I know as I have said there are good homes to be had from working families,

I will admit that when I let one of mums pups go it was as I said to a working home, all be it one of them only worked a few hours a day.

I do not reget the decision made as the home that she lives in is an excellent home, where every need of the dog is catered for, as I am sure that many working homes do. In fact he is to have another puppy from us and I wouldnt hesitate in reccomending the home to anyone who has puppies.

I think the reason I dont let mine go to working homes is that they leave our home when they are about 5 months old, by the time they are vaccinated and pet passported it takes time and they get used to having someone around all the time. So in consideration to the new owners and the dog I have just never done, dosent mean if I felt it was the right home that I wouldnt

As for not working all of my girls work and so does my husband. Like al of the members on the foruml our dogs are part of the family and we all take responsibility for them,

Maggie

I can fully understand what you are saying and where you are coming from and as you so rightly say that if you felt it was the right home then you would do it... and that it is just it.

Obviously if I were in the position that I did not have to work then I would love to be with my dogs but unfortunately I live alone and have to keep a roof over my head and I would be a very unhappy person if i did not have my dog/s to keep me company as they are my family!

I know I am lucky in the position that I am in, and I am grateful to be in it.

But fully understand those that have to work, it would be a sad loss as I have said if those good homes that come from working families were not available, and I am sure the dogs that live in working family homes are loved and cared for no less than those that lives in homes like many.

Each home has to be judged on its own merits and I would never be blinded to say no to a good home where the dogs quality of life would be good just because they work, to be honest I hope that I would be fairer in my judgement of the prospective homes.

Maggie i hope you don`t mind me asking but have you ever sold a pup and then regreted it later, that is my biggest fear.

No Adele all mine are registered before they are 3 weeks I also do all of mums as well.

Also mine dont leave until they are older about 5 months due to injections, pet passports, DNA profiling and parentage test.

Maggie

I have enjoyed reading this thread and wanted to make a comment.

I am not getting at anyone but I have a friend who bought her shih tzu from the breeder, can't remember who her mum is but her father is Ch. MungoJerrie and this woman, wasn't going to allow Caroline one of her pups.

Why?, her home was perfect, she lived in a large spacious bungalow, with big garden with 6ft fence all the way around, the only way into the garden was through the house, her pond was covered over with mesh.

The reason - she worked full time. Now the only reason why she was sold the pup was because she works at her familes business, run by her mum, dad (RIP) and herself, and Hattie (her pup now dog) was able to come to work every day with them, and she has the run of the shop in the back room, where Caroline, her mum and now her cousin, sits whilst waiting on customers.

Caroline is lucky that she is able to take Hattie to work with her, but I realise, that not everyone is as fortunate. But I do think it is wrong to state matter of factly not to sell to those in a full time job. Everyone should be judged on an individual basis and all the facts should be known before you decide if you will allow your pups to go with this owner.

But be honest here, how many of you would, when a potential new owner rings up enquiring about a pup, how many would ask on the phone, if they worked full time, and if they said yes, how many would say, sorry, I do not sell to people in full time work, or would you invite them over for a chat and interview them first before deciding?.

adele wrote:Maggie i hope you don`t mind me asking but have you ever sold a pup and then regreted it later, that is my biggest fear.

I have Adele (and I only had 4 go out of the family) - the first little male I sold - I really wish we had kept him. His new owner was a friend of my then friend in the breed but after a few weeks I received news that she wasn't happy with him. Then I found him another home and the people were sitting with me waiting for him to be delivered back when they did not turn up and decided they wanted to keep him after all. Mum and I worried for many years - whenever we talked about him we were upset wishing we had never let him go - he was the only one from that litter as mum had two and I had the other two. Having said that many years later the owner did struggle to find me (as I had moved twice since she had him) to let me know that he had died, she was very upset and it was obvious that she had loved him very much - so at least I know he was loved and cared for in the end.

I also rehomed one I had kept to my friend and she did not treat him like I would have expected her to and a year or so later I had to find him another home (happily he spent the rest of his life with a lovely old lady who treated him as if he were a king - as he should have been) and I made a resolution that if ever that situation arose again whether the person was my friend or not I would never let my dog go to someone without them paying as I think that because she didn't pay anything she did not value him - and I have to say that you never really know anyone - however well you think you know them!!

Then there was George - he went to the owner of the stud dog and was winning loads of things including BPIS at the Manchu Shih Tzu Society Silver Jubilee Champ Show - then all of a sudden I got a call to see if I would have him back (after my first litter problem everybody inlcuing my parents had to sign to say they would bring the dog back to me if they could no longer keep it) so he came back and it was very obvious that he had been mistreated. He was a lovely boy and never deserved anything like that - so I regretted letting him go too (in fact we regretted it from the start as he was the one my mum wanted to have but I had let the stud owner have 2nd pick of litter so as soon as I chose mine she went for the one she knew we also liked!!)

adele wrote:Maggie i hope you don`t mind me asking but have you ever sold a pup and then regreted it later, that is my biggest fear.

Sorry Adele
I miss read your post

The answer is yes I have but I was lucky I managed to buy her back it cost me
a lot more than I sold her for but she was worth it, that is my only regret.

She was never rehomed I wont do that if they come back then they are meant to stay no matter what, plus I worry that they know whats happening, I think those that can are far braver than I am as it takes a lot to do it again, she lived with us until she died last year, I called her Sasha and many knew her as CH Mifcahs Move Over Dad, she was from my first litter, I was lucky to own such a wonderful dog as her or should I say I was lucky enough to be owned by her.

I was lucky I have 2 daughters from her, Tammy being one and Sharay the other.

When I lost her I nearly quit showing she was my first home bred dog and she went onto do me proud getting made up here and in Europe, I was lucky iin one way that is I got her back

Parting with any puppy is hard you just have to go with what you think is right more so for the dog, Not everything or everyone is as they seem or so cut and dry, you learn by your mistakes but I would hate it if It was at the cost of my dogs.

But we are only human, and we do make mistakes, and have regrets. We just have to hope we get it right

Good luck with yours

Maggie

[quote="Ioxia, Coco & Saska"]I have enjoyed reading this thread and wanted to make a comment.

I am not getting at anyone but I have a friend who bought her shih tzu from the breeder, can't remember who her mum is but her father is Ch. MungoJerrie and this woman, wasn't going to allow Caroline one of her pups.

Why?, her home was perfect, she lived in a large spacious bungalow, with big garden with 6ft fence all the way around, the only way into the garden was through the house, her pond was covered over with mesh.

The reason - she worked full time. Now the only reason why she was sold the pup was because she works at her familes business, run by her mum, dad (RIP) and herself, and Hattie (her pup now dog) was able to come to work every day with them, and she has the run of the shop in the back room, where Caroline, her mum and now her cousin, sits whilst waiting on customers.

I have to admit that when I get any enquiries for puppies I ask certain questions first.
The first one is do you want to breed as I inform them they cant and I have a spaying or castration contract, and I always ask if they work, wether its full time or part time.
You also cant walk away with one of my puppies that I have bred as I deliver them to ensure they are going where I have been told.

This saves the prospective buyers waisting there time coming to see them.
But I will listen to what they say and if they come to see me then I will judge them on merit, as well as being individuals
I hope that I treat them fairly as well

Maggie

Thanks Maggie , that was a lovely endearing story and how your regret became a good thing in the end, lovely to know she had a lovely full filled life where she belonged.
My girl Poppy came to me after an email from a distant family member who no longer wanted her, i have recently been intouch with her breeder and have found out she has been passed round quite a bit infact ours is her fourth mummy and pleased to say her last, i broke down in tears when i found out and so did her breeder as she had no idea where she was and relieaved to here how settled and happy she is.
When she first come to me she was under weight and her face was very drawn she had a lot of white of eye showing, this has now gone and she is such a good eater and her eyes look brighter and her face is fuller her white of eye has completly gone. i`m just getting her coat looking better as she was cut terrible and her tail hair was none existent.
She has quite a good pedigree from what i can see, a lot of superlion and quite a few champs, its such a shame she had such a bad start in life, but i will make sure she is treat like a queen here for the rest of her days.
oh and i have finally found out her birth color she is now silver/white but was born brindle/white.

hi MJ and welcome, would you not be better off getting an older shih tzu, puppies are hard work,believe me, mine is 5 month had her 6 weeks and still can't house train her but good luck with whatever you decide,they are great dogs....


few questions for ladies who breed if that's ok.. why won't you sell puppies to people who want to breed surely if there paying for the puppy its up to them if they want to show or breed
just think its a little unfair people wanting to sell pups for over £500 but they wont give papers as they only want them to go as pets
oh 1 more question,why do they go at 5 months,when most puppies go around 9-12 weeks

going to get some stick for this arnt i

adele wrote:i have finally found out her birth color she is now silver/white but was born brindle/white.

that is brindle and white (the brindle changes colour throughout the dog's life and Poppy may well end up almost black and white as she gets older!)

GeordieBabe wrote:hi MJ and welcome, would you not be better off getting an older shih tzu, puppies are hard work,believe me, mine is 5 month had her 6 weeks and still can't house train her but good luck with whatever you decide,they are great dogs....

Hi GeordieBabe
It seems your almost from my neck of the woods! I grew up in Darlington and my dad's family live in Sunderland
anyway!
We hadn't really considered an older dog as we look after a Charlie during weekends and we just mutually decided i spose that we would start with a puppy! I would certainly like to start from the beginning as my partner has grown up with 2 shih tzu's so I would like to experience the same thing!
It is a strange scenario as all my life i've been allergic to dogs and when i first met my now fiancee I never mentioned that I was alergic to dogs for fear of it having a negative impact on the relationship, and strangely I never sneezed or had the wretched itchy eyes and then I found out I wasn't alergic to this particular dog now realising its the breed!
so being able to own a puppy/dog is going to be great for me considering how well i've taken to Charlie!
If we can work it so we can own a puppy it will be awesome fulfilling a little dream of mine for the last few years

I will say i'm liking everyones honestly and commitment to their Shih Tzu's to ensure they go to loving homes and I realise perhaps what i've asked is a controversial one!
I just hope that if we change our mind and do get a Shih Tzu puppy (which will be loved and cared for) that some of you won't think negatively of us when we ask for advice